What a cold, cold world

[Hunter_destruction]

This is a topic of the more serious kind. It also, probably isn't a debate, but nevertheless, I had no other place to put it. Second of all, if you cannot take things serious, don't even bother reading beyond this sentence.
Now... to begin.

It sickens, angers, and saddens me of the people who live in this world. Have you ever turned on the news, and seen some story of a person getting kidnapped, raped, and killed, and then found 28 days later, buried in trashbags?
99% of all people do not realize the seriousness of this fact. They just look at it and go "Oh, no. That's too bad. I'm tired of all these stories... blahblahblah" Well it's time for people to aknowledge that this is very real.
I have friends, not too many, not too little. And just in that group of friends I have two of which have either been abused physically, sexually, or both. It was the moment they told me this, that I realized that horrible, horrible people do exist. It's not some rumor, or perhaps conspiracy. No. There are people fucked up enough (excuse my language) to actually do sick things like that.
Why?
Why would anyone do that?
No one deserves to be treated like that, no one. Yet, somehow there are people who manage to do just that, abuse innocent people.
To not have hope (I know I'm straying from the topic) and yet live through those things is just... incredible.
Look, the point is, that I want everyone to know is that there are people all over the world who have to go through this, and I want people to not ignore it, and just say "Oh, please, this isn't happening."
People very close to you might have this happening... and it makes me so angry.

Actually, there probably wasn't much of a point except for me saying, that I really, really am disappointed of some people in this world...

Please, feel free to comment.

 

[Undead_Lives]

Note that even though I do include you in my next statement Hunter, it's not a flame. Or even an insult. Unfortunately, it's the truth.

People today do not realize what it truly means to be raped, killed, kidnapped, etc, until they have someone close to them that is affected by it. This is most likely what happened to you Hunter. They somewhat "mute" the other happenings. This is largely the media's fault. Because it's everyday on the news, people get used to it. As well, some begin to find it as normal, and think nothing of it. Some of those people begin to commit such crimes. The other reason they commit those crimes is just general selfish intentions that humans are born with. It's saddening that people today do not get what these crimes really mean until it affects them either indirectly or directly. That's also one of the reasons I stopped watching the news.

 

[Mavus]

A close friend at school has been recently abused by a teacher, he's just lucky he still isn't at the school... I swear to god when I heard about it I just about decided to kill him... Anyway it saddens me to talk about this, so that's enough,

 

[Fladian]

What you say is true, Hunter. But Undead gave most of the point I could possibly give. The news shows these things nearly daily and people are starting to get used to it. When I hear on TV (or on the radio) that someone got shot, beat, killed or anything else in that category, it rarely happens that I'm surprised - unless it has something unique in it. When one of the most famous Dutch people here was killed (shot in public), I wasn't too surprised and not really shocked. Though the entire politic in the Netherlands was literally stunned (a song was created shortly afterwards about it: "Zinloos." (meaningless)).
Like most other people, I am used to it and rarely surprised when such a thing happens. Like Undead_Lives, I don't watch the news much either anymore, though I am still a loyal listener to the radio - especially in the morning, which is a news program - which I still hear most news on. Not lately though. But I need to follow the news a bit to understand the jokes of comedian Peter Heerschop which gives a ride of funny jokes at the end of the week regarding all things that came in the news. He even manages to make things like murder, sexual assault and similar other things funny - but even he knows the limits - but never has he denied the fact that they aren't terrible. I personally encourage his way of bringing the news (in a not-serious way) to attract a younger audience.

I did not witness a murder or the death of a person in my entire life. My grandma passed away when I was out of the room, my grandpa passed away when I wasn't around, a classmate of mine passed away in a selective circle of friends and family and the baby of the girl I love passed away when I wasn't there. I can't imagine how hard it would feel if it was witnessed personally and I doubt anyone can, unless they experienced it. Those are the four closest people to me that passed away. Not in a particular order though.
Dutch radio DJ (and presentator) Ruud de Wild witnessed the death of a Dutch politician. As a matter of fact, if he didn't lift his briefcase, he was shot as well. When this happened, he took six months off from his work to recover from the shock. De Wild is well known for his harshness and ability to shrug something from his off. This is of a level even he cannot shrug it off of him. Ruud de Wild is internationally known.

I am also related in a way to three people that were sexually assaulted; or bluntly put: raped. Two of those are family; the other one being the girl I love and care for. One of those family got completely over it, the other one doesn't talk about it. Eitherway, in both cases it has been a long time ago. As for the other girl, which isn't family, it is a lot worse. Though I will never can get a confirmation of anything, my theory is that something in her mind was triggered after that and she mostly fell apart from the inside after that. As far as I know, she still hasn't recovered completely just yet. Shocked as I was, I promised to protect and care for her whenever I have the ability to do so. This was painful for myself as well.

But despite offering help to them when something has happened, it doesn't always mean much can be done. At a particular point in the year 2006, I was completely furious with myself - and still am, and probably will always be. When at that point, a great friend sms'ed me (knowing that I have a phone-fear) that she lost her baby I was at a party and a little drunk. The news got to me, but it didn't hit me. I replied: "Oh, bummer," or something in those words. At that point, I didn't realize the seriousness of that moment because I couldn't think clear and was in a hilarious mood. When I woke up the next day, I had a bad aftertaste and decided to read again what was sent to me. I was stunned when I read it and what I replied. That is something I can never make up to her, in my opinion. Though numerous times she told me to forget about it and that it was understandable. Personally, I don't agree with that. She came to me to seek comfort and I brushed it off with a non-emotional: "Oh, bummer." (not literally; English is not my first language)

Feeling disappointed about others is not really justified. People see every kind of abuse (including murder) nearly daily. If it isn't on the news, then it is a movie or something in the newspaper. It isn't shocking anymore and people get used to it. You don't know what hits you until it finally hits. And then it hits hard.
I grew up in one day. When I heard that the baby of a girl I loved passed away and I started to realize what the cause was, I was stunned. I got in a giant depression and cried several times and couldn't get a good grip on myself because I tried to deny reality. Have I recovered from it? Not completely just yet; it's still too fresh in my memory. Out of desperation from my own powerless self, I decided to consult people with experience of this. This is the only time I quoted myself in the Quote of the Day when I was in a mental depression.
24/06/06 "Consulting someone experienced, a doctor and now a realist. I hope this is the right thing to do." - Me, aka. Fladian.
In order to get over it, I consulted three people. Someone who experienced something similar before, someone who was studying to become a doctor - or rather, psychiatist - and finally someone who could have a realistic point of view in the matter. All three were unrelated. You could say that they did their job well. =)

Hunter, you also say that people should acknowledge it. And then? What should they do. Should they mourn for every thing that happens? Unfortunately every day someone passes away nearly daily. Naturally or not naturally. It is something that cannot be stopped for millions of reasons.
You also say why do people do this. Murder speaks for itself, but sexual abuse usually involves getting the kicks and being excited. There are numerous people that love it (either the victim or the assaulter) and approve it. You could call them sick, but are they really?
Undead also made a good point. Humans are from nature very selfish and often put them selves on a first place, meaning that others get a second place and not being as important. People would rather save them selves than someone else; that's natural. Not necessarily good, but it is natural. People who are not related to it may get involved. Or rather, will probably get involved.

I agree with you on the fact that those who got through it got over it and continued to live. I admire one of my family members for being how she is. The girl I love did not get over it, however. Her system crashed and the body decided not to accept it. As a result: she forgot about it. When asked, she can't remember a thing about it. She does remember the result, however.
I personally didn't get over it too well and am still emotionally hurt. Though that isn't surprising; I am a very emotional guy and such things hit me deep in the heart.

You could say that these people who do all this are sick. And you cannot forgive them for doing such. It is all terrible and I agree. But how would you think of the people that look at it and do not do anything about it?
I write about such events. Not how terrible it is that someone is murdered, who horrible it is that someone is sexually abused but how they continue to live and how the enviroment suddenly adjusts. You are looked at differently when people are aware that you are related to any of those events. This is the subject I write about and am generally interested in. The story I have been working on for about a year, Whatever walks here... walks alone is about several of those situations and how their effort is to continue normal life and finally how they have to adjust to the people around them and how the people around them change towards them.

There is no reason to be disappointed in some people. That's just how life goes in this cold, cold world.

 

[Viper]

Well i also have a friend and from our conversations ive picked up hints of her being raped and abused possibly even by her own family, but they seem to be on good terms at the moment. You guys gotta face it if you want these acts of violence to stop then you would have to do 1 of 2 pretty impossible things. 1) Have everyone in teh world travel in groups of 3 at all times or 2) Change the attitude and genes of the human race from the dawn of time. Face it a lot of people may think the same way along these lines and feel that there is no way they can stop it so they dont try. That feeling is another thing born within the human genes since the dawn of time that if it seems impossible then we cant do it. This race has done many stupid things...wait let me change that to EVERY stupid thing ever done. They have destroyed this planet, they find that war has always been the way to force their will upon others, and we have also created money which ruins most peoples lives either through greed or lack of money. This may seem off topic but it really isnt because Humans are really the stupidest creatures on the planet and because of that this kinda shit happens. This thread should be titled Dark,Cruel Race or something along those lines.

 

[p\/\/l\l4G3 H4X0l2]

I heard on the news today of a 101-year-old woman getting attacked and abused by a mugger just for money. She was struck 2 times concecutively in the face then her purse was stolen, carrying only $33. After that, she was hit in the face again. The robber ran away, then attacked an 85-year-old. Many of these issues are spread around the world. For example, this weekend, the the Bay Area of California, a woman was shot in the head right in front of a church one block wide. The victims of these crimes are very realistic and people who witness or hear this must be aware that this may happen to anyone. I thank you for posting this topic Hunter_destruction because I really wanted to put my opinion out into the world.

 

[Hunter_destruction]

Well look, I know that you can't mourn everything.
At the time of posted I was in a very upset mood, and couldn't think too cleary and I didn't know how to express how I felt. But thank you for the responses.
I like that I'm not the only one that notices these things.

 

[Mavus]

Well look, I know that you can't mourn everything.
At the time of posted I was in a very upset mood, and couldn't think too cleary and I didn't know how to express how I felt. But thank you for the responses.
I like that I'm not the only one that notices these things.

We all notice these things, yet it only affects us if it's someone close to us. It's not likely we'd brush off a friend, yet brushing off a complete stranger is obvisouly much more believable. If you told someone you (were completely sober by the way) had SEEN your best friend die, I doubt your going to say "Oh, bummer. Eh, need a new friend then?" It'd be more like you getting angry and trying to kill whoever killed him, I for one value friendships and would probably either A) Kill the person who did it. Or B) Kill his best friend or a family member of his, Altough I in no way support murder if one of those bastards who kill rape and fucking do unhumanly and ungodly things to others they deserve something back.

 

[Fladian]

Considering that a part of the post is directed at me, I'll give a direct answer to it.

I was not completely sober at that moment, true, but still, I do blame myself for not giving an at least normal reply. That is something someone like me, an emotional guy like myself, can think hard on.
Even though I should be the last person to talk about this after what I've done, I do value friendship a lot. But despite that I am unable to do much about the consequences, I will always be ready for the person who is in need of help. For those I care for, I will always be ready for them; for people I have a normal friendship with - including foreign people - I am usually ready to help them as well.

However, your choices I do not agree with by far. You speak of killing people as if it can be done easily. This is perhaps true in fantasy, but in real life it is a lot harder than you may think. As for killing his best friend or family members would make you just as bad as he is; or rather, in my opinion, even worse.
It may be the first thought that comes to mind, but it is unforgivable.

 

[Xeridanus]

There is a theory, that i agree with, that tries to explain the Idocies of humanity. it goes like this.

When we stepped out of the trees for the last time, all the processing power in our brains used for catching branches as we swung through the air suddenly became useless. This intelligence was then used against other humans. Just think what would happen if everyone you knew had the power to kill you in your sleep, simply cos they had a bad day. one would have to have his wits about him. this, amung other reasons, only served to make us smarter. at a certain stage our brains became so powerful that we realised, deep down on an instinctual level, that we WILL die. this caused a huge conflict in our heads, never before had this conclusion been reached in nature. if all our instincts were designed to keep us alive, then why were we going to die anyway? this is the conflict inside most (if not all) humans today. to try and console this conflict, lessen it's ferocious tear on our minds (left and right hemishperes acting on their own accord), some people invented an afterlife and made it a part of their religion. others turned to sex as a means, after all in nature, the survival of ones own genes is just as important if not more than the survival of the induvidual. the rest try to ignore the realisation of mortality. those that turn to sex as a means aren't always bad guys. JFK had a very impressive sex life, orgies and what not. and he was one of the most calm and collected persons on teh planet. do you think hitler was getting enough in the sack? it seems that ability to lead other people well is directly proprtional to how satisfied their sexual drives are. im getting side-tracked...

I know this topic was more about feelings and emotion (or at least i think it was before my post) but i think understanding is the best cure. i do not mean to be blunt or detached from my emotions, i can be quite emotional whenever i see something representing the lowest form of human behaviour on the news. im also no stranger to having close friends who have been "abused". in grade 10 i think (4-5 years ago now) i had feelings for a female friend, and she said to me (i can't remember what we were talking about before to get onto this subject) that her uncle had raped her. i asked when, she said when she was a little girl. she wasn't exactly very comfortable about it either, even though it happened more than 12ish years earlier. so, you see. i know that sexual abuse ruins lives. they have to carry that burden for the rest of their entire life. my dad would have no second thoughts killing someone he knew to be a child molester, even if that person was me or my brother. i'd like to think im the same.

Shit happens, arseholes cause it.

 

[Undead_Lives]

I...have a friend who got raped at a very young age. She then let herself be raped when she was quite a bit older. Needless to say, she's not really stable.

I know I'm not muted towards this kind of stuff because of how it still shocks me to even hear about it. I'm glad I'm that way. Someone said "there's nothing to fear but fear itself". Well I've got another fear for you. The fear of becoming used to violence, destruction, and the ruining of lives.

I really wish....I had the answers. I really wish I could help the people that go through this kind of thing. But wishing does nothing, action does. Because I can do nothing, well, helpless is what I feel.

Why do people do things like this? For the same reason you have the feeling of killing someone sometimes. It doesn't strike you as to what you're doing. You're taking life. You're destroying (not killing, but crushing) life. None of us have the right to do that. But some people believe they do. That's about the best reason I can think of.

Well, that's my two cents.

 

[Viper]

Undead what makes you think we cant do anything? Thats the kinda attutude that will get nothing done. We should all try and do something both in real life and on the net. We should campaign and spread the word. Telling people about this stuff and how they can help to stop it. If everyone bands together then this kinda thing wont happen because mroe people will be aware of it and it will be harder for the people to do what they do.

 

[Mavus]

Considering that a part of the post is directed at me, I'll give a direct answer to it.

I was not completely sober at that moment, true, but still, I do blame myself for not giving an at least normal reply. That is something someone like me, an emotional guy like myself, can think hard on.
Even though I should be the last person to talk about this after what I've done, I do value friendship a lot. But despite that I am unable to do much about the consequences, I will always be ready for the person who is in need of help. For those I care for, I will always be ready for them; for people I have a normal friendship with - including foreign people - I am usually ready to help them as well.

However, your choices I do not agree with by far. You speak of killing people as if it can be done easily. This is perhaps true in fantasy, but in real life it is a lot harder than you may think. As for killing his best friend or family members would make you just as bad as he is; or rather, in my opinion, even worse.
It may be the first thought that comes to mind, but it is unforgivable.

Maybe you are worse but at least your showing them what it feels like,

 

[Fladian]

Undead what makes you think we cant do anything? Thats the kinda attutude that will get nothing done.

No, that's a realistic attitude, and one I share with him. The truth is, there is nothing you can do against it, no matter how hard it may feel.

We should all try and do something both in real life and on the net. We should campaign and spread the word. Telling people about this stuff and how they can help to stop it.

Warning people about this stuff is a path with no end. People will not take warnings as heavily as some should. Therefore this is completely useless.

There are already numerous ways to prevent (or at least, lower) this from happening and I coincidentally recently watched a documentary about it on TV where they showed several ways to prevent it from happening and lower the chance of it - sexual abuse, that is.
But despite of all those heavy equipment to do things, still it isn't stopped. It is something endless.

Accepting it, trying to prevent it from happening with the people you know and finally soothing the person who needs it the most; that's perhaps the best and only thing you can possibly do.

if all our instincts were designed to keep us alive, then why were we going to die anyway?

An interesting quote to give to this would be the following. I have nothing else to add to that.

"What do you think you've found?
Here...
in this dying world.
Why do you build?
Knowing destruction is inevitably.
Why do yearn to live knowing all things must die?" (- Final Fantasy VI, Kefka)

my dad would have no second thoughts killing someone he knew to be a child molester, even if that person was me or my brother. i'd like to think im the same.

Then your dad wouldn't want to live here. During the last election, a political group was formed that encouraged pedophilia. Or rather, they were completely focused on it and wanted to make it legal.

The political group was not in the end not elected and got a minimum amount (if they got any at all, I'm not sure) votes. The way most remember them is as a: "Sick political group."
To be honest, I'm not quite sure how serious I was supposed to take this group - and with me, the rest of the country as well. They also encouraged something related to the Nazi's. Do remember that they are still looked down upon out here, in the Netherlands, which holds the largest rivalry to Germany than any other. (I fall a bit out of line here, I actually like Germany =P)

I'm glad I'm that way. Someone said "there's nothing to fear but fear itself". Well I've got another fear for you. The fear of becoming used to violence, destruction, and the ruining of lives.

The quote is right, but looked at it from a different way, which is not related to the subject. The quote would fit better during war.

Though what you say is true. "Being used for violence, destruction and the ruining of life," is perhaps the worst thing that could happen for somene who was against it. Coincidentally, not too long ago I saw a movie/documtentary (and read a (amateur)story) about it. That was on the 12th of October in 2006; it made it to my Quote of the Day. It would be something terrible to imagine.

Why do people do things like this? For the same reason you have the feeling of killing someone sometimes. It doesn't strike you as to what you're doing.

That is one of the reasons, another reason which probably gets a second place after the one you mentioned would be the kick of it. The adrenaline which is gained from it.

Which does make me sick are several punishments against it. The death-punishment (death-penalty?) is not legal here anymore; a life-long imprisionment is not life-long either. I don't have my law book here (that one is downstairs), so I'll be doing it from my memory, but I believe the longest punishment is sixteen years. (murdering two people would double this, three people would triple this, etc.) And the most common way to receive this punishment is murder. Now do remember that the law punishments weren't my strongest point during law class. I am somewhat more interested in family-laws.
In Ecuador (or was it Peru?) the death penalty is not legal either. However,t he life-long imprisionment is nearly the double of what is given here. Again, out of pure memory, fourty years. This is something I can't confirm, it was something I coincidentally picked up during a recent law class. This was also from the mouth of a fellow (and younger) student, which, despite that she's far more intelligent than I am, I'm not sure how much to trust.

Maybe you are worse but at least your showing them what it feels like,

How would I be worse?
I am stating that I am against killing the person that commits an action, because I don't see it is justified at any reason to take the life of someone, regardless of what they have done. I do not agree with the national punishment towards a murderer out here either (and the death-penalty is a heavily debated subject, which no real valid answer ever appears out of, or in the words of someone else: "It can make me furious after discussing such a subject. Rick and I never agree on it." - Edwin Evers, a radio dj).

Besides that all, there are far worse things than death itself.

 

[Mavus]

Flad my comment was more broad, I meant like if I went and killed the murderers girlfriend because he killed my friend then I might be worse but at least he'll never do it again? "Eye for an eye" ... Or we could always lock em up and shove needles in and out of their arms and tell the govt. we are performing medical test, just like you American's perform "MEDICINE" on David Hyks... or whatever his name is.